Traffic info

MT traffic:

http://roadreport.mdt.mt.gov/travinfomobile/ is a good map for showing current MT traffic.

WY traffic;

http://map.wyoroad.info/hi.html

turnouts

http://www.nationalparked.com/US/Grand_Teton/Roads/Jenny_Lake_Scenic_Drive.php

Jenny Lake turnout

Cathedral group turnout

Oxbow Bend Turnout

Willow Flats turnout

Lakeshore Trail: "2. Colter Bay (Brochure available) Lakeshore Trail, 2.0 miles RT, 1 hour, 200 ft
total climbing, EASY  Level trail follows Colter Bay shoreline; provides views of Jackson Lake and the Teton Range." - NPS

Signal Mountain Marina, can drive to, no hiking

Bathing Beach Road, by Colter Bay Ranger Station and Visitor Center

snake river overlook is due East of Jenny Lake

Schwabacher Landing: "When we visited in June 2014, the access road to the landing was being repaved and although unfinished the road was suitable for any car. This is a great spot for a picture of the Tetons with reflections in the creek. Also a good spot to see some beaver dams" -trip advisor.  Road was closed in 2013 for the sequestration, but is open now.  Is due East of Teton Glacier Turnout.

glaciers

NPS: "Snow blankets Grand Teton National Park in winter. As spring approaches that blanket shrinks; however, even in the heat of summer, snow and ice are present in the form of glaciers and snowfields. An average of 450 inches of snow falls in the Teton Range each year, feeding the glaciers and snowfields each winter, while the warm temperatures of the summer season eat away at this surplus of snow. Today, summer melt is outpacing winter snowfall and the glaciers are retreating."  " Starting over two million years ago, ice flowed across this valley many times only to melt and begin again. At one point, ice over 3,000 feet thick flowed south from Yellowstone and across the valley floor burying the town of Jackson with 1,500 feet of ice. "  "For a good view of a glacier, drive four miles north from Moose along the inside park road to the Teton Glacier turnout. You will find an interpretive sign that will illustrate where the glacier can be found on the range."

"“For a glacier to remain a constant size, snowfall at the top must equal melting at the bottom. More snowfall causes a glacier to advance, meaning to grow larger. Less snowfall results in retreat. At any size, to be called a glacier, snow fall compacted into ice must flow under the pull of gravity" - waymarking.com

"The majority of the glaciers in the Tetons have north or east aspect, with the exception of Falling Ice Glacier on Mount Moran, which faces southeast. All the glaciers are located on the east slope of the mountain range, and like the glaciers of the Wind River Range, this is most likely due to the decreased solar radiation and predominantly westerly winds (Fryxell, 1935)." - glaciers.us
" All of the existing glaciers in Grand Teton National Park were created during the Little Ice Age (1350–1850 A.D.) and have been in a general state of retreat since the mid-1800s" - wikipedia
"Schoolroom Glacier is a small glacier in Grand Teton National Park in the U.S. state of Wyoming.^[2] This Teton Range glacier lies adjacent to the south Cascade Canyon trail at an altitude of 10,400 ft (3,200 m), approximately 12 mi (19 km) from the trailhead at Jenny Lake. " wikipedia

fall colors

"While no one can accurately predict exact "peaks" of fall colors, in the Tetons, the third week in September has historically been about the peak for fall colors. And of course, some years are better than others!" - nps.gov

"In my experience, the last week of September and 1st week of October would be the Yellowstone/Teton prime time for a normal year. Earlier than the last week of September can still be good in the higher elevations.

Dry weather in the months before foliage season will usually cause the foliage to turn a bit early, but not by a lot. More important, the season of worthwhile color will be shortened, and maybe by quite a bit - very hard to predict.

Yellowstone is not the place to see fall color - the overwhelming majority of trees in Yellowstone are evergreens. You go to Yellowstone for animals and thermal features, and neither will be affected much by a dry year. Some animals that move to higher elevations in the summer (bear, elk) may return to lower elevations earlier than usual for water, which would make them more visible.

On the other hand, the Tetons are always good. The advantage in Jackson Hole is the Snake River - in a dry year, the river still delivers water to the trees on either side, and that's where most of the fall color is. You will also find animals in abundance in Jackson Hole, too." - random guy on tripadvisor

"But I've seen years when the first cold front moves in mid September the parks are covered in snow with highs in the 30's. " another random guy on flickr

"Yellowstone is alittle different. The fall color is confinded mostly to Lamar Valley in the northern part of th park. " same flickr dude

'I usually leave the parks around Sept 25 and can miss the height of the fall colors which are really in the first week of October. But the weather again. The cottonwood tress along the Snake River turn earlier then aspens in the other parts of the park. " - flickr dude

farmer's almanac peak foliage dates: "Wyoming: Oct. 5-14" and "Montana: (Central) Sept. 28-Oct. 9; (Western) Oct. 5-21"

hiking

airport to condo to ranger station

mammoth area

We'll arrive at Mammoth too early for lunch, but I don't know if it will be convenient to do some hiking and then stop for lunch.  Mammoth Terrace and Mammoth Dining Room close Oct 12.

 2 hr 21 min, 75.9 mi drive
8:30 hit the road
10:45 arrive Mammoth
2:45 head to cabin
5:00 arrive cabin

Google earth map says trail is 3.9 miles, takes 3 hours: 

Mammoth ranger programs:

Opal Terrace (across the street from the rest):

Minerva Terrace (looks like the best one to me)

Palette Spring:

Cleopatra: 

Mammoth Overlook bottom: 

Mammoth Over look top: 

Lamar Valley and Bear Tooth

9a leave cabin

10:30a arrive Lamar for wolf watching

2:30a leave Lamar head to Bear tooth

3:00 Bear Tooth stops

5:30 check in Yodeler.

1 h 57 min to the end of the Valley with no stopping.  Assume 2 extra hours for stopping.

Bear Tooth:

about 36 min from end of Lamar to start of bear tooth.

"This 63 mile drive from Cooke City to Red Lodge is an awesome experience. Plan a full day for the round trip and do it on a day when weather is great. You will experience a lot, spectacular mountains, alpine lakes, wild flowers, snow/glaciers and difficult yet rewarding drive (beartooth pass is over 3300m high) It takes about 3 hours with minimum stops, be sure to bring OFF and layered clothes."

google maps says 1 more hour from start of Bear Tooth to Yodeler in Red Lodge.  Random guy says allow an extra 1.5 hours to stop at a few overlooks.  

Red Lodge restaurants: 
Bridge Creek Backcountry Kitchen & Winebar  http://www.eatfooddrinkwine.com/ people like it a lot, but it doesn't look like too much stuff that the kids would want to eat (no burgers or chicken tenders)

Sam's Taproom and Kitchen:  people like it, some people say there are lot of children there at lunch, they do have burgers, etc.  http://redlodgeales.com/sams-tap-room/menu/

Animals

Marmot:

Pika:

Pine Marten:

golden mantled ground squirrel (like a chipmunk with no face stripes):

Food

Jim suggested each family cook one night, and we eat dinner out for the rest of the nights.

Dinners
We can't cook at the hotel in Red Lodge on Friday.  The Saturday that Lynn and I arrive, Lynn and her kids will be too late for dinner.  So potential eating-in nights are S, M, Tu, W, & Th.  Since we are only staying in Jackson Hole 2-3 nights, it might be problematic to buy a whole meal's worth of food, and then have to move the ingredients and left overs to West Yellowstone.  The day we drive from Jackson Hole, see the Canyon, and then drive to West Yellowstone is also going to be a long day with 3 hr 42 min of driving plus the sight seeing.  Wed and Thursday are good eating in nights.

Can we put together a grocery list for Saturday?  I think there are a number of items that all 3 families will use (bread, milk, eggs, butter, fruit, etc).  The condo is supposed to have paper goods and cleaning products.  We could potentially eat in for breakfast, lunch and dinner for Sunday and breakfast and lunch for Monday.

Lunches: 

Since we need to have packed lunches Mon and Fri, and maybe Sunday, I'd recommend bringing a soft sided cooler.  That might help us to transport groceries from Jackson to West Yellowstone as well.

Sunday, there are a lot of restaurants around Jackson, but there is a lot to do in the Tetons to do it in one day, so if we pack lunches, we could eat on the shuttle boat that crosses Jenny Lake.  Could do some overlooks and Rockefeller Preserve in the a.m., then take a shuttle boat at noon.  Must be back by 4p to get the last shuttle across the lake, or we'll have to walk an extra 3.3 mi around the lake.

Mon or Tues (which ever day we leave Jackson Hole, see the Canyon, and end up at West Yellowstone)  The cafeteria is not open at the Canyon and It is a solid hour drive to Grant Village for the closest caf'.  I think packed lunches will be the way to go this day.

Tues or Wed (Old Faithful day) Old Faithful Caf is open, could skip packing lunch if we want a break.

Wed or Thurs ( Mammoth day) The Mammoth Terrace is grill is open, but it takes 2.25 hr to get there, we'll arrive too early for lunch, and the trail is 4 mi, so when we are done the trail it'll be too late for lunch.

Thurs: if Mammoth day, see above, if it is the break day, plenty of options in West Yellowstone.

Friday: Lamar Valley and Bear tooth Hwy: There are no places to buy food out here.

For Groceries in West Yellowstone there is the Market Place, and Food-Round Up

reviews of Food-Round Up say it is small, as over-priced as you'd expect for a very small tourist town in the middle of nowhere, but ground coffee and beer are cheaper here than at Market Place:  http://www.yelp.com/biz/food-roundup-supermarket-west-yellowstone

Market Place got much better reviews largely because they had more food in stock:  http://www.yelp.com/biz/market-place-west-yellowstone-2

Groceries in Jackson Hole:
Albertson's - 1.9 mi E of condo on 26.  reviews say is similar to a small Safeway with tourist town prices.  One review says the Bear Spray is $60 here, but $45 elsewhere.
Jackson Whole Grocer: 2.6 mi S of condo on 26.  similar to Whole Foods, some organic, some standard grocery.  Complaints about the burrito bar.
Smith's Food & Drug: 3 miles from the condo, very few reviews, but they have a pharmacy and review said the food was well stocked with a good bakery.

Cafeterias and restaurants open Sept 22-26 in Yellowstone:
Lake Lodge Cafeteria: (not open for lunch while we are there)

• September 2 – September 28
  Breakfast: 7:00 a.m. – 10:00 a.m.
  Continental Breakfast: 7:00 a.m. – 10:30 a.m.
  Dinner: 5:00 p.m. – 9:00 p.m.

Old Faithful Lodge cafeteria: 

• September 2 – October 4
• Lunch: 11:00 a.m. – 4:30 p.m.
• Dinner: 4:30 p.m. – 8:00 p.m.

Canyon General Store is open until Sept 29, Canyon Lodge dining room and cafeteria close Sept 14.

Grant Village (in West Thumb, by the lake): sevice station and dining room are open.Grant Village Dining Room opens at 11:30 on May 23, 2014

• Breakfast/Breakfast Buffet: 6:30 a.m. – 10:00 a.m.
• Lunch: 11:30 a.m. – 2:30 p.m.
• Dinner: 5:00 p.m. – 10:00 p.m.

The dining room will close after breakfast on September 28, 2014, Reservations are required for dinner.

Mammoth Terrace Grill (fast food at park prices): 

• September 11 – October 6
  Continental Breakfast: 8:00 a.m. – 11:00 a.m.
  Lunch/Dinner: 11:00 a.m. – 7:00 p.m.

Roosevelt Old West Cookout, last day is 9/14.  

Roosevelt Dining Room closes 9/1.

Grocery List starting point: 

1 gal 1% milk

1 gal skim milk

1 dozen eggs

1 lb lunch meat

1lb Oscar Meyer bacon

1 lb breakfast sausage

1 lb ground beef for spaghetti

Nature’s own whole wheat bread

½ lb real butter

yogurt

Smallest Sour cream

Macaroni & Cheese

Box spaghetti

Jar spaghetti sauce

Jiff Smooth peanut butter (has to be Jiff)

brown Mustard

Soft tortillas (20+)

Salsa (tomato flavored, not fruit flavored)

Sugar (small box for coffee and lemonaide)
coffee
coffee filters

Small Box of luna bars (or equivalent)

Plain cheerioes

Candy/ Cookies 

Chips, 1 ruffles or lays

Ritz crackers
Juice for the kids.  Mine will drink Apple, or juice boxes, or Capri Sun, or Gatoraide.
Juice for adults?

2 LT Diet Caffeine Free Coke or Pepsi x 2?

beer

Wine, chardonnay 2 btls or 1 box
1.75 L Captain Morgan

Baby carrots

bananas

1 cantelope or ¼ watermelon

strawberries

apples, gala or fuji

2 Sweet onions
2 Green peppers
gallon zip bags
do we need paper plates and solo cups?

Itinerary

Full Week Schedule, Tentatively :
day 1, Sat, arrive, stay in Jackson Hole
day 2, Sun, explore Tetons, stay in Jackson Hole
day 3 Mon, Tetons, or start exploring Yellowstone to allow for a day of bad weather
day 4 Tues, Yellowstone Canyon and surrounding, stay in West Yellowstone
day 5 Wed, Old Faithful and surrounding, stay in West Yellowstone
day 6 Thurs, Mammoth area and Fire Hole canyon hot springs, stay in West Yellowstone
day 7 Fri, Lamar Valley and Bear Tooth Highway, Stay in Red Lodge
day 8 Sat,  drive to Billings Logan Airport, fly home

We can decide Sun evening if we've seen enough of the Tetons, or if we really need another day.  We have 4 days of sights planned in Yellowstone.  There was talk about allowing a 5th day so that if we get a bad weather day, or an illness/over-stressed situation, we can take a day to chill.

Yellowstone Canyon drive times: 
Jackson Hole to Yellowstone Canyon: 115 mi, 2 hours 39 mins

1. Yellowstone Canyon to West Yellowstone: 39.3 mi, 1 hour 3 mins

Total driving for the day: 3 hr 42 min plus stops.  

how road closures are going to affect our vacation

This map is from http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/roadclosures.htm

Below is my google map of the places we talked about seeing.

First Day in Yellowstone, coming from Jackson Hole:

Drive time condo to Old Faithful with roads open:

1. 98.1 mi, 2 hours 11 mins

   
   

Drive time condo to Old Faithful with road closure: 

1. 157 mi, 3 hours 45 mins

   
   

Proposed change, do the Canyon on the first day in Yellowstone since we'll have to drive by it anyway.

Mammoth: 
drive time cabin to Mammoth with roads open: 48.5 mi, 1 hour 18 mins

drive time cabin to Mammoth with road closures: 

1. 75.7 mi, 2 hours 20 mins

   via Grand Loop Rd

Is is not clear if any of the things we want to see at Mammoth will be accessible.  More research required.  

rental cars

11 days SUV:
kayak.com 9/16 - 9/27, JAC - BIL $1027.55 for a Jeep Grand Cherokee or similar from Alamo.
7 days full size car:
kayak.com 9/20 - 9/27, JAC - BIL $377.89 for a Generic Full Size car from Alamo.
11 days full size car
kayak.com 9/16 - 9/27, JAC - BIL $680.20 for a Generic Full Size car from Alamo.
4 days full size car (will probably need 2)
carrentals.com 9/16 - 9/20 JAC - JAC $128.01 for a Toyota Camry or similar from dollar.
4 days van:
orbitz.com 9/16 - 9/20 JAC - JAC $307.72 for a midsized van Caravan or similar from Dollar.
UPDATE as of 8/21/14, found a midSized SUV directly from Dollar for $179.90.

For some reason renting one car for 11 days straight costs more than renting one car for 4 days and then a different car for the next 7 days as shown below:
1) Renting a car for 11 days = $680.20

2) Renting two cars for the 1st four days, and then two different cars for the last 7 days costs
($128.01 + $377.89)  = $505.90, a savings of $135.

The van is only $51 more than renting two full sized cars for the 4 days and will simplify parking and allow you all to visit and plan on the way to Yellowstone.

So, my recommendation is each family pays $377.89 for a full size car for the week of 9/20- 9/27, and each family pays $103 for 1/3 of the Grand Caravan for 4 days?

A complication would be getting people and gear back to the condo on 9/27.  Lynn's flight changed such that she is arriving around 7p.  My flight changed also, but I have not accepted the changes.  R&T could drop Jim and Casey off at the condo on their way to the airport to exchange to a smaller vehicle.  Update, Connie's flight arrives at 8p and Casey is going to the airport to rent a car for the Phelpses so it will be done ahead of time.  It is 10 miles/16 minutes from the airport to the condo.

West Yellowstone

http://www.cabinsyellowstone.com/rooms.html

336 Firehole Ave

The trip from the Jackson condo to the West Yellowstone cabin is 2 hr 55 min, 128 mi.  Most roads in the park close Nov 3, some as early as Oct 14.  They should all be still open in Sept. 

We are to call the owners once we have arrived.  We've put a deposit down, and owe an additional $1190 after arrival.  They will come to the cabin to collect the balance.  Linens and towels are provided as is dish soap.  The washing machine and dryer in the cabin is "coin operated".  There is satelite and a 60" TV.  Check in is after 5p on 9/22 and check out is 10am on 9/26. We offer ... Satellite TV, and telephones; a gorgeous fireplace and spacious kitchen. High speed Internet is available. 

#1 restaurant on tripadvisor (Cafe Madriz) closes Sept 15 for the winter.

2nd on tripadvisor: Woodside Bakery 17 Madison Ave West Yellostone, MT 59758 Hours Monday–Saturday, 7am–4pm Closed Sunday 406-646-7779 people note good sandwiches, great cinnamon rolls  .5 mi from cabin, 10 min walk, 5 blocks.  

5th on tripadvisor: Running Bear Pancake House 538 Madison Ave, P.O. Box 465, West Yellowstone, MT 59758-9525 good breakfast and lunch, diner style, closes at 2p. .4 mi.,  7 min walk, 4 blocks Menu: http://runningbearph.com/menus/dinner-menu.html people love bfast there, only one review of dinner and they didn't like it.

7th on trip advisor; bar-n-ranch.com/dining-wine/grill-menu 6 miles out of town, great view, $16 burgers, good reviews. menu: http://www.bar-n-ranch.com/dining-wine/grill-menu

8th Smoke jumper cafe: open 8a - 6p.  Might be hard to make it there by 5 to get dinner done by 6p.  3 min outside town.

9th, Madison Crossing Lounge, open 5p, $12-26 entrees.  

Kiwi's take-away: many warnings about the owner being over-the-top rude.

Buffalo Bar: open 10a - 2a daily. People like it, I'm not sure it is kid-friendly.   Oh, this review says "This is a bar restaurant but kids are not allowed. 21 over."

China Fun restaurant just opened this year.  only 4 reviews, on tripadvisor, all good.  No web address or menu.  Reviews on yelp are 1/2 good, 1/2 terrible.

Serenity Bistro: $6 - $27 says tripadvisor.  No prices on their website.  Will only take two credit cards per group.

Geyser Grill:  Good meatloaf, chicken.  Soup, sandwiches, chili.

Beartooth BBQ: decent BBQ, not much of anything else on the menu.  

Canyon Street grill: burgers, friend fish, and chicken tenders only except for the kids menu.

Lakeside Lookout, good reviews, upscale, 8 mi outside West Yellowstone, closed Wednesdays, just opened in May: 
menu: https://attachment.fbsbx.com/file_download.php?id=1518176135069064&eid=ASt-y7QtYXI5pLKfCk3CCDreXkvblh-aNsaSiux71ljOeo1B5_kNFzbU1tr0IrLAa6g&inline=1&ext=1409443463&hash=ASsm3QFDVypodFgC

Ranger program: 

Junior Smoke jumper program: ""The kids will actually hold the tools, they'll dig a little fire line and they'll experience what real firefighters do," Hicks said."

Kids 6 and up can learn about smokejumpers and fire ecology, tools, parachutes, equipment used, and the physical fitness required to fight wild land fires. They are sworn in as Junior Smokejumpers and receive a tote bag, certificate and sticker. 

Sun-Wed & Fri 10am & 3pm; Thur & Sat 3pm & 7pm

Morning registration at 9:30 am for the 10:00 am program; afternoon registration at  2:30 pm for the 3:00 pm program. Two hour program May through the end of September. 

http://www.destinationyellowstone.com/events/junior-smokejumper-program

Grizzly and Wolf Discovery Center: